Metagame PU Old Gens + Discussion

Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
This thread is meant to act as the singular hub for all discussion and archiving of resources for older generations of PU. For reference, this currently includes generations 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.

The main goal of this tier is to archive the resources of older generations for use in events like the PUPL in a singular spot with easy access. Another goal of this thread is to further develop these older formats, and in that vein discussion is encouraged. Feel free to add any thoughts that you may have on the topic, along with any adjustments you think should be made.

General rules of the thread:
  • No one liners please!
  • Be civil with discussion. Some of the older generations are still largely unexplored, so new ideas are always welcome so long as they have an argument to back them up.
  • If you have an idea for an event for this thread, speak to Akir to work out the logistics/possibility.
  • As always, have fun!

Links to Old Gen Resources:

GSC PU (Gen2)
ADV PU (Gen3)
DPP PU (Gen4)
BW2 PU (Gen5)
ORAS PU (Gen6)

SM PU (Gen7)
SS PU (Gen8)
 
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zS

this is all a moo point
is a Pre-Contributor
NUPL Champion
:dp/victreebel: DPP PU Resources :dp/monferno:
Welcome to DPP PU! Here you'll find our resources such as the Sample Teams, Viability Rankings and Speed Tiers, as well as our ongoing metagame discussion. Feel free to drop your thoughts on the metagame below, we'd love to hear them!

Notably Different Mechanics:
  • Sleep lasts 2-5 turns, the counter does not reset upon switching out
  • Magic Coat does not reflect entry hazards, Taunt, or Torment
  • Extreme Speed has a priority of +1
  • Toxic is 85% accurate
  • Taunt lasts 2-4 turns
  • Pokémon holding Life Orb will not take recoil damage hitting a substitute
  • Encore lasts from 3-7 turns
  • Explosion halves the target's defense (250*2=500 BP)
  • The first Pokemon slot is your lead; no Team Preview

click on the sprites for imports


Band Monferno Offense by zS
:misdreavus::monferno::bellossom::relicanth::quagsire::purugly:

QuagAmph Balance by Drud
:metang::victreebel::magmar::quagsire::ampharos::purugly:

Muk + Tangela Balance by Aliss
:machoke::relicanth::tangela::muk::gabite::zangoose:

Glalie + Murkrow HO by Akir
:glalie::murkrow::purugly::bellossom::relicanth::xatu:

Stat / Pokémon / Base / Nature / Evs / Boost / IVs (if not 31)

1606784147122.png
400+ Speed
1606784148842.png

627 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
600 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +3
572 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +3
540 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +4
524 / Mantine, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2
522 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +2 / 30
508 / Kadabra / 105 / +Spe / 252 / +1
498 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +2
492 / Fearow, Slaking / 100 / +Spe / 252 / +1
480 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +2
478 / Mantine, Victreebel, Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
476 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2 / 30
475 / Xatu / 95 / +Spe / 252 / +1
463 / Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1
462 / Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30
459 / Zangoose / 90 / +Spe / 252 / +1
458 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +2
442 / Golduck, Pinsir / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
442 / Misdreavus / 85 / +Spe / 252 / +1
438 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +2
433 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / +1
430 / Monferno / 81 / +Spe / 252 / +1
428 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
422 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 220 / +2
414 / Marowak / 45 / +Spe / 252 / +2

1606784590594.png
300-400 Speed
1606784592089.png

393 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1
392 / Rhydon / 40 / +Spe / 252 / +2
378 / Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 252 / +2
361 / Sneasel / 115 / +Spe / 252 / 0
360 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / +2
360 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / +1
358 / Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +1
358 / Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +2
355 / Purugly / 112 / +Spe / 252 / 0
343 / Relicanth, Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / +1
339 / Electabuzz, Kadabra, Rapidash / 105 / +Spe / 252 / 0
328 / Raichu, Regigigas, Fearow, Slaking / 100 / +Spe / 252 / 0
317 / Xatu, Grovyle / 95 / +Spe / 252 / 0
313 / Magmar / 93 / +Spe / 252 / 0
309 / Murkrow, Chatot / 91 / +Spe / 252 / 0
306 / Golbat, Zangoose, Mr. Mime / 90 / +Spe / 252 / 0

1606784605605.png
200-300 Speed
1606784607572.png

295 / Golduck, Pinsir, Misdreavus / 85 / +Spe / 252 / 0
289 / Gabite / 82 / +Spe / 252 / 0
287 / Monferno / 81 / +Spe / 252 / 0
284 / Glalie / 80 / +Spe / 252 / 0
269 / Pinsir / 85 / Neutral / 252 / 0
264 / Golbat / 90 / +Spe / 96 / 0
262 / Mantine, Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0
261 / Victreebel / 70 / +Spe / 252 / 0 / 30
354 / Rampardos / 58 / +Spe / 252 / +1
251 / Glaceon / 65 / +Spe / 252 / 0
249 / Kingler / 75 / Neutral / 252 / 0
240 / Whiscash / 60 / +Spe / 252 / 0
239 / Mantine, Victreebe, Dragonair / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0
238 / Victreebel / 70 / Neutral / 252 / 0 / 30
236 / Regigigas / 100 / Neutral / 0 / 0
229 / Crawdaunt / 55 / +Spe / 252 / 0
223 / Gorebyss / 52 / +Spe / 252 / 0
219 / Tangela, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 252 / 0
218 / Metang / 50 / +Spe / 252 / 0
216 / Glaceon / 65 / +Spe / 216 / 0
211 / Tangela / 60 / Neutral / 220 / 0
209 / Relicanth, Crawdaunt, Swalot / 55 / Neutral / 252 / 0
207 / Armaldo, Marowak / 45 / +Spe / 216 / 0
206 / Misdreavus / 85 / Neutral / 0 / 0
203 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / 0
200 / Gabite / 82 / Neutral / 0 / 0

1606783246953.png
100-200 Speed
1606783248108.png

199 / Metang / 50 / Neutral / 252 / 0
197 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 124 / 0
196 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / +Spe / 252 / 0
189 / Armaldo, Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 252 / 0
180 / Relicanth / 55 / Neutral / 136 / 0
180 / Armaldo / 45 / Neutral / 216 / 0
179 / Rhydon, Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 252 / 0
177 / Pelipper / 65 / Neutral / 44 / 0
176 / Politoed, Solrock / 70 / Neutral / 0 / 0
166 / Flareon / 65 / +Neutral / 0 / 0
164 / Regigigas / 100 / +Spe / 252 / -2
156 / Tangela, Lapras / 60 / Neutral / 0 / 0
146 / Relicanth, Ampharos, Swalot / 55 / Neutral / 0 / 0
140 / Camerupt / 40 / Neutral / 84 / 0
136 / Bellossom, Metang, Muk, Sableye / 50 / Neutral / 0 / 0
130 / Solrock / 70 / -Spe / 0 / 0 / 0
126 / Marowak / 45 / Neutral / 0 / 0
118 / Regigigas / 100 / Neutral / 0 / -2
116 / Camerupt, Kecleon / 40 / Neutral / 0 / 0
114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / 0

1606783187397.png
0-99 Speed
1606783188954.png

96 / Parasect / 30 / Neutral / 0 / 0
91 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -1
76 / Torkoal / 20 / Neutral / 0 / 0
68 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -2
54 / Muk / 50 / Neutral / 0 / -3

 
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Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
to kick off posting in this thread, i would like to post a few Gen4 teams, starting with one of the most successful team in the recent tournament: my SD Monferno team.

purugly.png
golbat-f.png
monferno.png
poliwrath.png
misdreavus.png
metang.png

Purugly @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn

Golbat @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

Monferno @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Vacuum Wave
- Focus Blast

Misdreavus @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball

Metang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Atk / 12 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Pursuit


So this team was used by a multitude of people and only lost one singular time, ending with a record of 7-1. Interestingly enough, by the time the tournament started I actually considered this team to be outdated. The lack of answer to SubCM Drifblim is notable, and the fact that Metang is the sole Psychic resist on the team (when it really needs one) is another issue since Kadabra can 2hko with HP Ground. Regardless, the team was extremely successful and still is. Just goes to show how far good teambuilding fundamentals and a solid understanding of a tier's workings can take you.

The team premise is pretty simple: Make a mockery of defensive play with SD Monferno (who OHKOs most defensive walls), Golbat, and Defensive Misdreavus, and clean with priority.

Purugly is the lead and also the primary revenge killer, as it has decent power along with priority and fantastic speed...the second fastest non-boosted mon in the format. Purugly's U-turn is also extremely handy for bringing in the setup mons of this team. Golbat makes a U-turn core with Purugly while also checking huge threats such as Machoke, Muk, and Victreebel (with the EVs specially made so Golbat always outspeeds neutral 252 speed Victreebel, but you can make the speed 96 to always outspeed Victreebel). Monferno works as the nuke of the team and the wincon, as it is able to OHKO all defensive variants of Poliwrath - the most common answer to Monferno - and sweep with a combination of powerful STAB and decent priority. Poliwrath was then added because Poliwrath is a staple on every team archetype in the generation. Wrath checks a lot of important mons with the most notable being Rhydon. In fact, Poliwrath's speed EVs are made specifically to always outspeed Rhydon...which is now standard for the tier. Poliwrath is just the glue that the team needed by taking a lot of Rock and Water hits that the rest of the team cannot while having extra power and priority. Defensive NP Misdreavus is a cool set in the generation as it checks Muk, Machoke, Rhydon, and a bunch of other mons like Zangoose with Will-o-Wisp while also having the ability to stallbreak. Misdreavus is also notable for being probably the best Stallbreaker in the tier. Metang was added last as glue, as the team was severely weak to Psychic and needed Stealth Rock and Pursuit was appreciated. Also checks threats like Muk, Golbat, and Poliwrath as additional padding.

Overall a fun team. Try it out along with the tier, but just know that some more modern teams can have an edge over this team.
 
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So I thought I'd introduce some people to ADV PU with a fairly standard offense team of mine in the meta at the moment, focused around Choice Band Furret (dont laugh) and Diglett. Again, even though this team is just to get a feel for the meta, it still performs pretty adequately and reliably.

Furret Offense



Furret @ Choice Band
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Quick Attack

Diglett @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Dragonair @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge
- Iron Tail
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Wailord @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Water Spout
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Sunflora @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Koffing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze


Right off the bat we have Furret, one of the best leads in PU as well as wallbreaker. Not only is it the most splashable mon right now, but it is also one of the fastest with its base 90 speed. Furthermore, Furret 2HKOs the entire tier barring resists and immunities. Since Furret struggles to break through Rocks and Steels, Diglett is a great partner alongside it because it can trap things like Lairon, Magcargo, Corsola and Graveler, and remove them. However, what Diglett can't break through is things like Duskull and Koffing but we'll have something for them later. Once Furret and Diglett have softened up the opposing team, Dragon Dance Dragonair can come in and threaten to sweep the opposing team. Dragonair has a great defensive typing which allows it to set up easily on things like Charmeleon, Sunflora and Minun not carrying HP Ice. At this point, the team needed defensive synergy and an answer to Will-O-Wisp mons as mentioned earlier, so offensive Wailord made sense as the next teammate. With Water Veil, it is immune to burn, and with such a large HP stat, it takes very little from moves like Seismic Toss, Night Shade and Psywave. In return, it can threaten teams with poor water resists with powerful Water Spouts and Hydro Pumps. Wailord is a great glue, and can check waters and fires with its defensive typing, making it work really well on the team. Next mon is Sunflora which is probably the best Grass in the tier; this set is SunnyBeam with SubPetaya, which is a great late game cleaner and glue as well, since it can check electrics and grounds like Minun and Graveler. (A GrowthSynth set can also be used here.) Alongside Wailord, the two make a great core. Lastly, we have Koffing, the catch all answer to physical threats like Machoke, non CB Furret, Piloswine, Diglett, etc. Haze is a nice move which prevents things like opposing Bulk Up Machoke or Dragon Dance Dragonair from sweeping.

To recap, break down the opposing team with Furret and Diglett, clean with Dragonair, and use Wailord + Sunflora + Koffing's excellent synergy to switch in to stuff. Something to keep in mind: the team lacks a normal resist, so things like Banded Furret can be tricky to switch into. Also, things like Hidden Power can be physical or special, depending on the type. Sludge Bomb Diglett is physical, not special! But other than that, I hope you enjoy the team and will give ADV PU a try!
 
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ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
Never played BW PU but I had some experience building for it last PUPL and it seems quite similar to early XY PU. So I decided to give it a shot and speedbuilt some teams. BW PU is a really interesting metagame as there's a lot of unique threats that get a chance to shine that couldn't really do so well in ORAS. It is also a heavily offensive metagame because of a number of factors, such as the lack of bulky pokemon with recovery, and the almost non-existent hazard removal. Note that while these teams may look good in theory, I haven't tested any of them because of obvious reasons, so take them with a grain of salt.


Dual Scarf Offense

Rampardos @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Crunch

Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch

Metang @ Eviolite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake

Golduck @ Leftovers
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Toxic
- Dragon Claw

Rotom-Frost @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Blizzard
- Volt Switch
- Trick
A team built around overwhelming fellow offensive teams with Scarf Rampardos and Scarf Rotom-F. Scarf Rampardos is very good in this meta since it outspeeds the fastest relevant pokemon in the tier, Raichu, and there are few pokemon that can take it on. QF Ursaring is another cleaner that pairs extremely well with Ramp, helping break down bulky mons like Metang and Gigalith for it. Metang is great role compression + rocks, and Gabite was added as a check to Fire types such as Combusken, and a pokemon to prevent Volt Switch from being spammed. Finally I have CM Golduck as my win condition to set up on opposing water types and help deal with weather teams.


Grumpig + Throh Balance

Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Rock Tomb

Leafeon @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Return
- Leaf Blade
- Quick Attack

Grumpig @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 20 SpA / 88 SpD / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Air Slash
- Scald
- Protect

Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Throh @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 196 HP / 168 Atk / 72 Def / 72 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Storm Throw
- Payback
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
A team built around some of the XY and ORAS concepts of bulky offense. I've got a neat core of bulky pokemon with complementary resists to tank hits for the team and wear down opposing teams until they are in range of being swept by SD Leafeon and Scarf Raichu. Gigalith tanks normal-type hits, Mantine tanks water attacks for Gigalith, Grumpig tanks Psychic attacks, and Throh is a fat piece of garbage that switches in to everything, you get the point. EVs on Mantine and Throh are meant for avoiding 2hkos against some of the main threats while also still packing some punch.

I've built a few other teams too, but they're mainly brainless offense that can be easily replicated by good players, and not really worth a share. Spikes Dwebble/Venipede in a tier with almost no hazard removal is obviously gonna be great. Pair that with a bunch of fast offensive mons or Linoone + Screens/Memento and you're good to go.

Despite that, stall does not actually look too bad in the tier given that there are pokemon like Audino, curse Muk, and Bronzor to eat up hits easily, and you can use Tentacool or Sandshrew for hazard removal. (Sucks, I know, but with Wish support you can get away with it).

I look forward to the revival of the older metas (thanks again Akir). Hopefully some of the guys who were around for BW PU can chime in!
 
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2xTheTap

YuGiOh main
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Cool set for Gen 4 PU:

Golbat @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Heat Wave / Taunt
- Nasty Plot

The lure is here! I saw a lot of HP Water Purugly luring Rhydon from earlier replays, but I think this set does that a little bit better. I didn't save my replay, but Dundies and Akir both saw this and could probably confirm for me that this Golbat is very effective at what it does.

Specially offensive Golbat just destroys any Flying resist your opponent would normally switch into standard Golbat (just save for Probopass, but I guess you could run HP Ground for that over Heat Wave). Standard Rhydon is OHKOed by Giga Drain and dies instead of setting up, while refilling the bulk of your HP in the process; Metang is easily beaten by Heat Wave; other similarly bulky mons like Gastrodon or Quagsire are beaten by Giga Drain; specially defensive Kecleon with Color Change can be turned into a Grass-type as it switches in by first hitting it with Giga Drain, and then bombarding it with a SE Sludge Bomb on the following turn, etc. Sludge Bomb is there for STAB and lets Golbat beat the things it's supposed to, like Tangela, Bellossom, and so on.

This is one of the easiest things to set up. People see a Golbat and will normally switch to their Flying resist, at which point you simply click Nasty Plot. So, your opponent will often be forced to RK this with something faster if you obtain those NP boosts. Coincidentally, Inner Focus helps protect Golbat against fast RKers that would try to do that like Purugly; Golbat can live through 1 LO Frustration at full and is immune to Fake Out's Flinch effect due to Inner Focus.

Keep in mind when using this that a few Pokemon that physically offensive Golbat would have checked now have a better chance against you: specially defensive Flareon, Machoke, Muk, Drifblim, and a few others.

I slashed Taunt, as NP + Taunt lets you wallbreak effectively, while you still get to KO Rock- and Ground-types like Rhydon. Taunt can also bluff its physical set, but the trade-off is losing out on your ability to KO Metang via Heat Wave. In any case though, partner this with Pokemon that enjoy fat Normal-, Flying- and Water-resists gone and go to town. :}
Metang:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Heat Wave vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Metang: 208-247 (70.9 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Heat Wave vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Metang: 413-489 (140.9 - 166.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rhydon:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rhydon: 504-598 (143.5 - 170.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gastrodon:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Gastrodon: 286-338 (67.2 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Gastrodon: 567-671 (133.4 - 157.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Solrock:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solrock: 192-229 (50 - 59.6%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solrock: 385-455 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Onix:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Onix: 510-603 (241.7 - 285.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Relicanth:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Relicanth: 385-458 (112.9 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Quagsire:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 385-458 (97.7 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Specially defensive Kecleon:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kecleon: 156-187 (48.1 - 57.7%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kecleon: 312-369 (96.2 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

(The above calculations assume a super-effective hit, with Golbat's Giga Drain changing Kecleon's type to Grass prior to it using Sludge Bomb).

Specially defensive Lickilicky:

252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 91-109 (21.4 - 25.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 183-216 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252 SpA Life Orb Golbat Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky: 273-321 (64.3 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The team I used it on before Linoone was banned:


Rhydon @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Misdreavus @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Memento
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball

Poliwrath (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Waterfall

Xatu @ Light Clay
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Wish
- U-turn

Linoone @ Salac Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Seed Bomb
- Shadow Claw

Golbat @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Heat Wave
- Nasty Plot

The goal is simple: support the team with U-Turn + Wish + Screens Xatu, Memento Misdreavus, and SpDef Rhydon's Toxic and SR. Use those moves to setup a Belly Drum with Salac + Gluttony Linoone, a NP with Golbat, or Substitute + Bulk Up with Poliwrath. Golbat breaks down all of Linoone's defensive answers, while Poliwrath addresses specially defensive Pokemon (Flareon, Lickilicky, Kecleon, Probopass) that specially offensive Golbat struggles with, via a strong STAB Focus Punch. Grass-types like Bellossom and Parasect are handled for Poliwrath by Golbat, so the three form a fairly cohesive offense together. Short description, but that's the gist of it. You could probably replace Linoone with Zangoose, Purugly (Purugly for improving matchup against Weather teams by wasting turns of Sunny Day or Rain Dance with Fake Out), or something Scarfed.
 
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Octillery

Octillery @ Life Orb
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Waterfall
- Gunk Shot
- Seed Bomb
- Fire Blast


The water type cacturne of gen 4. I swear to you this thing has potential and can lure like no ones business. This set was made to lure common bulky offensive threats like muk and poliwrath while still doing well vs balance (Bellosom and Gastrodon). It hits hard af and I gave it fire blast to OHKO metang as waterfall doesn't. Just seems like a really solid wallbreaker and I intend to do more testing soon. Here's a replay vs TJ where it performed its intended role pretty nicely by removing Bellosom and Poliwrath.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4uu-545795597
 
quickly posting a couple cool things that have been picking up usage in the adv pu meta:


sub growth sunflora
Sunflora @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Substitute
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]


i've using this a ton recently mainly because of the fact that it's one of very few pokemon in adv pu that can boost their special attack, outside of calm mind pokemon like abra or corsola which arent even that common. what this set is good at doing is setting checking water type pokemon, especially defensive clamperl, as substitute blocks toxic, and it has enough bulk to take a few surfs from it. growth is like calm mind without the special defense boost, but it's the special attack boost that really matters here. as a result, sub growth sunflora beats special walls like lickitung, clamperl and a few other walls. definitely a fun set.


sub toxic crawdaunt
Crawdaunt @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Crunch
- Surf


at first we all thought physical crawdaunt was going to be the main set, but as it turns out, special sets utilizing its stabs have been much more useful, especially alongside status moves like sub, taunt and toxic -- these moves allow crawdaunt to spread status, disrupt defensive pokemon, prevent set up, etc. its base 90 special attack isnt bad either, especially when invested with a modest nature. whats nice about its dark stab move, crunch, is that special defense drops arent rare, so it can often get some drops and win 1v1, especially with toxic whittling the opponent down. other variants of this set include taunt toxic, toxic 3 atks w/ ice beam and taunt 3 atks, which are all pretty good imo.


aoa chinchou
Chinchou @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam


chinchou has been another one of those water types that have been really good lately; this is due to the fact that volt absorb prevents minun from revenging, and the fact that diglett has been seeing less usage as well. its powerful water + electric + ice (and sometimes even grass) coverage makes up for its lackluster base special attack and is tough to check outside of something like lickitung or a specially defensive grass type. it also checks lead wailord, has decent speed, and just overall doesnt disappoint right now.


protect graveler
Graveler @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect


whereas previously choice band had been the most commonly used set, i do think the bulky protect + toxic + lefties set is much better atm. it gets to scout choice banded pokemon's moves, heal passively, spread status, and isn't passive at all. if something like cb machoke decides to use hp ghost predicting a ghost switchin, graveler gets to toxic a switchin, protect, whittle opponents down, heal, switch out and repeat. it also is the best normal resist right now, hands down. pairing this with something like wailord or sunflora helps take care of its water or grass type weaknesses, so it's not hard to provide support either.


tropius
Tropius @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake


this mon has been picking up major usage, jumping from C- all the way up to A, purely because of its defensive set which has become standard and its ability to check machoke and furret. it's very bulky, has sd and synthesis, so it has longevity and sweeping abilities. this mon has been really splashable as of late, as it instantly provides a switchins to almost half the physically based tier, so it has a low opportunity cost. there's probably a lot of other sets that havent been explored yet, so hopefully this mon picks up even more usage in the coming future.


there's a few other things that are kinda cool, tagging Charles A. Theist to post about it:
- bulk up 3 atks machoke
- dd petaya seadra / charmeleon
- thunder wave
 
A really underrated mon in Gen 3 PU (in my opinion) has to be:



Ariados @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Signal Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Baton Pass / Hidden Power [Ghost] / Hidden Power [Ground]
- Agility

Ariados isn't too noteworthy mostly due to its low speed and, for lack of a better word, pathetic movepool. However, it does have the niche of Agility, along with some decent bulk, high attack, and the strongest bug stab in all of Gen 3 PU. Couple this with Sludge Bomb, and Ariados can be a threatening sweeper. However, its not used much for a reason. That's mainly for, as I mentioned before, the abysmal movepool. The only real coverage you have is hidden power. However, that's all it really needs. All it needs to hit are the steels/poisons and ghosts of the meta. The best ones to use are Hidden Power Ghost and Ground, since HP Ghost the only move that'll let you bop Duskull and Gastly, while ground lets you hit Lairon, Seviper, and Graveler (unless you run some mixed Ariados memes). Substitute is good for survivability and as a counter to priority users like Furret or Trapinch, and for Protect Speed Boost Yanma. Houndour makes a great partner for Ariados, as it traps and kills its checks and counters like Abra, Gastly, and Duskull. I'd really love to see this set get more love in the future, since I feel it can fit on quite a few teams just because of its power, typing, and agility.

Some unorthodox options over Baton Pass and HP Ground/Ghost:
- Giga Drain / Hidden Power [Grass] (hits Graveler and Seadra harder)
- Psychic (Hits Koffing)
 
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Gen 4 PU Viability Nomination Incoming
Pelipper -> B


Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Air Slash
- Roost
- U-turn

Pelipper is a very under utilized mon that can serve as a bulky pivot on offense to check the likes of Metang, Sneasel, Rapidash, and Poliwrath. These are very "meta" mons at the moment and we have something that blanket checks all of them, recovers off damage, and serves as a pivot to maintain momentum into wallbreakers. Because of its ability to counter the most used water check in the tier and hit back super-effectively, Pelipper can put pressure on many common offensive builds involving Wrath as they have no choice but to switch out to another mon or take big damage on poliwrath (47 - 57% if you're running some speed investment). This combination of stab makes it surprisingly threatening as the only mons that want to switch in on it are Spdef Bellosom, Gastro, or Muk (2 of which push a more passive playstyle which is easier to take advantage of using Pelipper as a pivot). Knowing this, it's important to pair Pelipper up with mons like Drifblim, Cacturne (Highly recommend Cacturne as a partner due to its ability to hazard stack/wallbreak and use Peli to check its monferno/poli weakness), Rapidash, LO Rhydon to utilize its role as a pivot->wallbreaker effectively (it also pairs very well with Metang as they cover each others weaknesses very well). I hope you guys can try this thing out and see how well it can function on certain builds. It's honestly a very good mon and I think it can help to check the more difficult to check mons in the tier.
EDIT: 176 speed is for outspeeding modest cacturne with uturn and doing 64 - 75.4%
 

ShuckleDeath

They call me the kign of typos
is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderator
Dual Band + other Cool sets ADV



Doduo @ Salac Berry
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Peck
- Flail
- Endure
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Clamperl @ DeepSeaTooth
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice Beam
- Icy Wind

Graveler @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Explosion

Koffing @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Chinchou @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Machoke @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Cross Chop
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Facade


The Goal of this team is to sweep with Doduo, Salac Flail can clean easily through unprepared teams and is lead with as it forces out common leads like Pineco while also bringing in things like Larion and Koffing which is where Banded Machoke comes in. Baiting out the burn than hitting it hard with Banded Guts Facade, hopefully leading to a Doduo sweep later. Graveler is the go to Furret check and along with Machoke helps to break for Doduo. Clamperl acts as another very solid breaker while Chinchou checks Electric-Types for Doduo and clamperl, it also has Thunder Wave to help Clamperl get KOs on faster threats. Koffing finishes off the team checking physical attackers and grass types.
 
Here's a Gen 3 PU viability nomination I've been meaning to post for a few days:



Mightyena from C- to C+

Mightyena is an overall very underrated tank in the current metagame that hosts quite a few niches including the fairly rare Dark typing (belonging to only 3 other mons being Houndour, Crawdaunt, and Nuzleaf), which only has two weaknesses in fighting and bug but resists major typings like ghost and psychic, as well as decent 70/70/60 bulk and a both rare and valuable ability in intimidate makes Mightyena a great switchin to Pokemon such as Graveler, Piloswine, and the very important Furret (all of which are top tier threats.) Additionally, great utility moves in Taunt, Roar, Yawn, and Heal Bell allow Mightyena to be great partners for Pokemon such as Togetic as they both reliably wall the physical and special attackers of the tier, Pineco which puts pressure on the Pokemon Mightyena switches into with Spikes, and Tropius which appreciates Heal Bell to help it stay healthy for a swords dance cleanup. Mightyena may face competition from the other Heal Bell tank Lickitung, but its superior ability in Intimidate makes it a great choice as a Cleric for Bulkier teams.

Mightyena @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Furret Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mightyena: 124-147 (36 - 42.7%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Graveler Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mightyena: 87-103 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Crawdaunt Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mightyena: 154-182 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Dragonair Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mightyena: 106-125 (30.8 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mightyena: 136-160 (39.5 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


Replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen3ou-560438159 Me vs Boyeraj17
 
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Aaronboyer

Something Worth Fighting For
is a Contributor to Smogon
U.pngUU.pngUUU.pngUUUU.pngUUUUU.pngUUUUUU.png
Empire Of The Sun

Furret @ Silk Scarf/Miracle Seed
Ability: Keen Eye
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sunny Day
- Double-Edge
- Solar Beam
- Flamethrower

Tropius @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Sunny Day
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Swords Dance

Sunflora @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 44 HP / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Substitute
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]/[Ice]

Weepinbell @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice]/[Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Ponyta @ Charcoal
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Nuzleaf (M) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Chlorophyll
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam
- Extrasensory
- Explosion

This Hyper Offensive Team starts out with Sunny Day Furret. Furret is one of the most common leads in ADV PU, and this team takes advantage of it by running a more unorthodox moveset. Not many other leads are able to outpace Furret, which allows Furret to reliably set up the Sun. Furthermore, typical switch-ins like Wailord and Graveler get hit super-effectively by Solar Beam. Double-Edge is standard and helps Furret kill itself in order to bring in another Pokemon.

Tropius and Sunflora are pretty much standard. However, there are a few exceptions. Tropius's EV's are Max Attack/Speed with Synthesis being swapped with Sunny Day. Sunflora has a few changed EV's and has HP Fire instead of HP Ice to take advantage of the sun, although HP Ice still helps taking down Tropius and Dragonair.

Weepinbell is copy/pasted from the Set Compendium as is Ponyta, who is the 4th Sun Setter.

Nuzleaf is the 5th Sun setter and the Final Pokemon. It has proved to be the most effective member on this team, which at first I'd had no idea it would be doing. The main reason why is Silk Scarf Explosion. Do you want Dragonair gone? Boom. It's gone. Do you want Houndour gone? Boom. It's gone. It also the fastest member of the team under sun, reaching 480 speed. Do not underestimate the power of this thing.

When using this team, be sure to carefully count the number of Sun turns left. Also remember there are only 5 turns and not 8 turns of sun, due to the Heat Rock not coming out until Gen 4.


ADV PU VR Nominations

Shedinja Unranked-->D
While using Shedinja does make you feel like you are playing a Pokemon down the whole game, the team not being revealed until you bring it in helps Shedinja, and the lack of entry hazard users, which is pretty much limited to Omanyte and Pineco, is helpful for Shedinja blocking out the entire rest of your opponent's team late game. It also has near perfect synergy with Pokemon like Houndour. Also, Physical Shadow Ball. Yes please! Shedinja isn't without flaws. You will need a Rapid Spinner on your team if you use this. Toxic is also everywhere, although it can be mitigated with the holding of a Lum Berry. Overall, I believe it has enough merit to be ranked at D. I recommend you see my second match against Queen Motorhead to see it in action although I don't agree with it being used as a lead whatsoever, but rather a late-game cleaner.

Nuzleaf Unranked-->C or C-
This thing eliminates any one Pokemon of your choice when using it on a Sun Team. While Nuzleaf isn't very good on really any other playstyle, its reliability to knock out just about anything while still being a decent Sunny Day abuser makes it well worth using. It's also one of the fastest Sunny Day abusers, being able to hit 480 under the sun.
 
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The TIBot Groove(Shoutouts to UBERSkitty for the name)

If you thought Gen 7 Dugtrio stall was bad then oh boy do I have a team for you...
Pineco @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Explosion
- Toxic

Clamperl @ DeepSeaScale
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Barrier
- Rest
- Surf
- Toxic

Tropius @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake

Mightyena @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Lickitung @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Diglett @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
This stall team starts off with Diglett, as it is one of the best revenge killers in the tier thanks to its amazing ability in arena trap as well as some of the highest speed in the tier with 95, not to mention its amazing coverage that allows it to revenge kill a wide selection of the meta.

Pineco is my Spiker, which punishes the opponent for switching out against my team (which they will be doing a LOT). This set is fairly standard, set up Spikes and throw out toxics, and then click explosion when the time is right. HP Bug is just filler for when Pokemon like sub growth Sunflora try to set up a substitute on you.

Mightyena's set is copypasted from my post for the defensive cleric set, and is the secondary cleric for the team.

Tropius and Clamperl are next. Tropius's set is copypasted from the forums and is my wincon with this team. Clamperl is the standard SpD tank set with DeepSeaScale, and is one of the best answers for special attackers for the team.

Finally, Lickitung is the main cleric and is used to not only wall special attackers as well as some physicals but to pass wishes to Pokemon like clamperl and Mightyena who adore having Lickitung as their partner. It also helps Tropius get back in if it gets low from setting up.

To sum up how you play the team, lead with Pineco, set up spikes, then explode, set up more spikes and die, or go out into either Clamperl, Lickitung, or Mightyena. Wear down the opposing team with Spikes and Toxic, while wishing and heal belling to keep yourself sustained. When something gets low enough, pivot into Diglett and Earthquake 'til it dies. Finally, when the opponent is weakened enough, clean with SD Tropius.
 

ShuckleDeath

They call me the kign of typos
is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderator
ITS TIME BOYS

(Shuckle to C- Rank in ADV PU)


Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Encore
- Protect
- Wrap

Looking for a GSI to Furret as well as Tropius, Doduo, Farfetch'D, Kingler and other strong physical attackers? Well, Shuckle does all that and a bit more. Switching into any move Furret has to throw at it with relative ease it can pivot around it quite well. Its Strongest possible move against it, Choice Banded Banded Punch only does ~35% max in which it just spams Wrap. It also beats defensive Swords Dance Tropius on the switch-in with +6 Hidden Power Flying only having a ~68% chance to 3HKO. While Duskull also checks both Furret and Tropius it also gets 2HKOed by Furret's Choice Band Shadow Ball, it also doesn't Blanket Check Special attackers unlike Shuckle which switches into non-Stab SE moves from the likes of Dragonair for example. Encore really makes this Mon as it prevents set up from the Likes of Machoke, Abra, Farfetch'D, Kingler(Crab Hammer does 27% Max), etc. It Spreads Toxic around quite easily as well which is further helped by the fact that Taunt Mechanics this generation are not nearly as good as they are in the following generations, only lasting one turn.

With all this you may be wondering why I'm wanting to start it out at a low rank, well, unfortunately, it does have a few hindrances we can not overlook the main one being it takes quite a bit of support to stay alive throughout the game being destroyed by Toxic and lacking recovery outside of Rest it is almost mandatory to pair it with lickitung(Wish support and Heal Bell), it also needs to be paired with a good water Resist such as Lombre as if there's a Water Spout Wailord on the opposing filed it turns Shuckle into a liability without one. It struggles getting past Machoke as it has Guts and Wrap Mechanics here only take as much health away as Leftovers can heal. Same can be Said with Shed Skin Dragonair as it hit hard with a boosted Iron Tail and can cheese through Encore + Toxic.

tl;dr Shuckle Checks most of the tier but takes a lot of support to do so.



+1 252 SpA Minun Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 77-91 (31.5 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Machoke Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 88-104 (36 - 42.6%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0+ SpA Dragonair Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 54-64 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 0+ Atk Tropius Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 94-111 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Graveler Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 86-102 (35.2 - 41.8%) -- 80.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Sunflora Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 89-105 (36.4 - 43%) -- 97.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (I was surprised too)

252+ SpA Charcoal Houndour Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 82-97 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- 27.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Latest ADV PU VR changes:

Ariados C- to C
Mightyena C- to C
Shuckle Unranked to C-

Bayleef B- to C+
Combusken C+ to B-
Doduo C+ to B-
Abra A- to A
Seadra A to A-

Ariados was moved up to C because of its ability to hit hard with its STABs and clean late game with Agility and wasnt as useless as some mons like Noctowl or Wigglytuff. Mightyena was moved up to C not solely because of the set Slar posted but because it's decent as an offensive cleric with Intimidate. the defensive set looks promising, but could definitely use some fine tuning. Nuzleaf was recently in D, but became unranked last week because no one uses weather; if weather starts to pick up then it'll definitely be moved back up. and there are better sun abusers/setters anyway. Shuckle has been placed in C- for its ability to blanket check a lot of stuff in general and its Toxic / Encore / Protect / Wrap set is extremely stally and a bitch to deal with. It also switches into Furret which is always nice for the meta.

Points of discussion:
Wailord S to A+
Machoke A+ to S
Sheddy to D

Wailord has been good, but people are starting to actually prepare for it now, which means Water Spout isnt as spammable as before. Thus, Wailord isn't as splashable on as many teams; it's still good, just perhaps not as good as an S rank mon. Machoke, on the other hand, can set up Bulk Ups on just about anything and deal a good chunk of damage, even to checks like Dustox, Duskull, Koffing and Tropius, paving the way for teammates to execute their late game sweep once bulky mons are weakened. Its fairly splashable on every balance, BO, or offense team and always pulls its weight.
 
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TJ

Banned deucer.
is the Smogon Tour Season 34 Championis a Past SPL Championis a Two-Time Past SCL Champion
Wailord S to A+ DisAgree
wailord.png
Wailord is one of the most defining Pokemon in the tier because of its unique characteristics that make it one of the most effective, defensive Pokemon in PU, while being a very potent stall breaker concurrently. The recent adaptation in bulky Water checks such as Lombre, Sunflora and Chinchou makes Wailord's Water Spout not as spammable as it was before, however despite its drawbacks in bulky Water checks, fast Electric-types and offensive pressure Wailord is still a key threat in the meta serving as a good wall breaker and stall breaker deserving S-rank in my opinion.
 
So everyone probably had notice the rising in usage of drifblim (that shit is everywhere) so I was looking of a possible set outside of calm mind and this was made with decent success:

STOCKPILE PASS


Drifblim @ Leftovers
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Baton Pass
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

Drifblim has a really high hp stat so using 252 evs on both defenses is better. Timid nature so you don't get speed tie with jolly rhydon and out speeding 80 speed evs poli and 252 speed evs cacturne. There are a lot of possible recipients, I used 2 that work decently well which is tropius and kingler (kingler working better obviously). I would have the replays but apparently I was clicking the wrong button to save them.. don't judge me


Now that drifblim's usage had rise a lot and much teams aren't prepared for it here are some sets that help dealing with it:

Toxic Spikes Beedrill

Beedrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Toxic Spikes
- Payback
- Poison Jab/ U- turn/ X-Scissor

Beedrill is the only reliable toxic spikes setter since Roselia got banned. His bulk may look mediocre but its actually not that bad. With payback and the special bulk he can actually check drifblim really well.

252 SpA Drifblim Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Beedrill: 85-102 (25.4 - 30.5%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Drifblim Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Beedrill: 127-150 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery



Encore NP Raichu


Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Encore
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

Pretty obvious any encore user can pretty much wreck drifblim since encore is broken in gen 4(3-7 turns) so you just encore it and proceed to nasty plot.


Encore Lopunny


Lopunny @ Life Orb
Ability: Cute Charm
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Encore
- Baton Pass
- Frustration
- Jump Kick

Another obvious thing, encore on the shadow ball/sub/calm mind, then baton pass on the switch or something that breaks the sub if it stays in.


Shadow Claw Purugly


Purugly @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out/ Shadow Claw
- Frustration
- U-turn/ Shadow Claw
- Sucker Punch

This is a common lure used on purugly to lure ghosts. Most drifblim switches in freely on purugly and start setting up and sweeping, with shadow claw you damage them enough.

252 Atk Life Orb Purugly Shadow Claw vs. 108 HP / 0 Def Drifblim: 276-326 (58.9 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Specially Defensive Cacturne

Cacturne @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Spikes
- Synthesis
- Energy Ball

Note: Hp fighting drifblim wrecks this


Sneasel

Sneasel @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Punishment
- Low Kick
 
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ShuckleDeath

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Wailord S to A+ DisAgree
View attachment 80902
Wailord is one of the most defining Pokemon in the tier because of its unique characteristics that make it one of the most effective, defensive Pokemon in PU, while being a very potent stall breaker concurrently. The recent adaptation in bulky Water checks such as Lombre, Sunflora and Chinchou makes Wailord's Water Spout not as spammable as it was before, however despite its drawbacks in bulky Water checks, fast Electric-types and offensive pressure Wailord is still a key threat in the meta serving as a good wall breaker and stall breaker deserving S-rank in my opinion.
If Anything I feel your post outlined why Wailord shouldn't remain S Rank more than reasons it should, basically just saying it's still a great stallbreaker and tank, just not as good with the rise of lombre, Sunflora and electric types. Which to me just makes me want it to drop a rank. So I vote drop it to A+.
 

UberSkitty

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So everyone probably had notice the rising in usage of drifblim (that shit is everywhere) so I was looking of a possible set outside of calm mind and this was made with decent success:

STOCKPILE PASS


Drifblim @ Leftovers
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Baton Pass
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute

Drifblim has a really high hp stat so using 252 evs on both defenses is better. Timid nature so you don't get speed tie with jolly rhydon and out speeding 80 speed evs poli and 252 speed evs cacturne. There are a lot of possible recipients, I used 2 that work decently well which is tropius and kingler (kingler working better obviously). I would have the replays but apparently I was clicking the wrong button to save them.. don't judge me
While I doubt it matters much, if at all, wouldn't running enough evs to speed creep cacturne, 56, and then distribute the rest in bulk, along with bold or calm nature, give a little more bulk, like 252 def/200 spdef/56 speed calm?
 
While I doubt it matters much, if at all, wouldn't running enough evs to speed creep cacturne, 56, and then distribute the rest in bulk, along with bold or calm nature, give a little more bulk, like 252 def/200 spdef/56 speed calm?
252+ SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 200+ SpD Drifblim: 377-447 (85.4 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Drifblim: 390-462 (88.4 - 104.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Yeah is better, thanks!
 

UberSkitty

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You can run more in spedef or some in hp if u want to avoid the ko altogether.
252+ SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 216+ SpD Drifblim: 372-438 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Cacturne Dark Pulse vs. 24 HP / 200+ SpD Drifblim: 378-446 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Aaronboyer

Something Worth Fighting For
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Wailord S --> A+ Agree

While Wailord is still the bulky Water Spouting behemoth it has always been, more people have been preparing for it. Lickitung, Lombre, Chinchou, Minun, and Sunflora are just some of the Pokemon that have become more prevalent in recent weeks, and they all put pressure on Wailord to some degree. Wailord is still the most versatile and highly favored Water-type of ADV PU. However, Wailord is not able to put itself on the same pedestal as Furret anymore.


Shedinja Unranked --> D Agree

Shedinja is the only true Ghost type that can take advantage of Physical Shadow Ball and it pairs very nicely with HP Fighting and its Base 90 Attack stat. One of the coolest things about Shedinja I've not already mentioned in my initial post is Dry Pass. Shedinja's ability to keep up offensive momentum will not cease to disappoint. It also can borrow Swords Dance or Agility from Ninjask albeit you can only have one of these 3 moves. While Shedinja is only usable on select teams, its unprecedented ability in Wonder Guard gives it enough of a niche to be ranked D.
 
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If Anything I feel your post outlined why Wailord shouldn't remain S Rank more than reasons it should, basically just saying it's still a great stallbreaker and tank, just not as good with the rise of lombre, Sunflora and electric types. Which to me just makes me want it to drop a rank. So I vote drop it to A+.
I agree, Wailord dropping to A+ is completely valid imho, its amazing at what it does but there is just a large amount of mons it struggles with and competes with that its just not really S material anymore.

Machoke from A+ to S - Agree

Machoke is a bulky, strong fighting type which alone would give it plenty of viability in the tier. Combo this with its wide movepool and great ability in guts and it quickly becomes an unpredictable and overall punishing mon. With many sets including resttalk, band, and bulk up Machoke can do just about anything you'd want a physical attacker to do. The fact that you cannot punish it with will-o-wisp from would be checks like Duskull or Koffing makes it just much harder to punish. Finally, its matchup against the tier allows Machoke to be a defining mon in the current metagame.

Shedinja to D - Agree

I'm still confused how this thing didn't end up in D to start. Its amazing at what it does, and what it does is punish teams for not bringing an already rare move in spikes, as well as for not saving your super effective moves just for it. Despite its major flaws, such as a huge weakness to toxic which is fairly common, as well as a weakness to rock and ghost (both types also very common), Shedinja will once again not find a slot on most teams, and really only find its place in stall. However, once again it does its job great for stall and definitely deserves at least D.

And now for my own suggestions:

Tropius from A to A+

Tropius is honestly a great mon in the current meta. Not much to say, I'm sure everyone knows of its amazing capabilities as a mon. Its super bulky and has access to reliable recovery on top of swords dance, making it the best flying mon in the tier if not one of the best mons in the tier period. Its ability to clean late game is fantastic, and the fact that it handles so many mons in the meta with little predicting makes it definitely worth the rise.

Diglett from A- to A

Diglett has been a great mon in the meta since the beginning. Its the 3rd fastest unboosted mon in the metagame tied with the likes of yanma and minun which gives it great footing in the meta already, but combo this with its great coverage and with a choice band it can become arguably the best revenge killer in the game. It can fit on a variety of team types such as Hyper Offense, Stall (which has been seeing a rise in popularity recently) as well as balance. Despite its frailty, it actually requires little support to function well (although you can't just slap it onto a team). Finally, its matchup against top tier mons such as CB Furret, Sunflora, and Graveler make it very rewarding to have on a team. Definitely worth an A slot.
 

UberSkitty

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So, I'm here to make some Gen 4 Viability Ranking nominations...

Drifblim A --> A+


Drifblim has proven to be a large threat in PU mainly due to it's Sub CM set. It is a great late game sweeper, with a limited amount of answers, who can be handled or at least weakened over the match before Drifblim is sent out. It hits most of the tier with it's STAB Shadow Ball and great coverage in the form of Thunderbolt. It can use many mons as setup fodder, being able to switch on many mons easily due to having a good typing, along with decent natural defenses and that fantastic HP stat, that walls many mons. And that's not to mention the Special Defense Boost it gets through Calm mind, along with the boosted Special Attack and the Speed from Unburden, which outspeeds all unboosted mons. On top of that, it doesn't have to fear being statused thanks to sub, so slowing it down with paralysis or widdling it's HP down with burn or toxic cant be used as answers. This all allows Drifblim to rightfully claim it's place in A+ of Gen 4 Viability Rankings.

Gastrodon B+ --> A-

Gastrodon is great since it is able to be used as an answer for some of Gen 4 PU's greatest threats, such as Poliwrath, Rhydon, and Muk. It has good defenses and a great HP, along with a great defensive typing. It can run multiple sets, either specially defensive or Curse Setup, making it that much less predictable as to which set it will be. It gets great coverage by simply running it's STAB attacks, in the form of Waterfall and Earthquake. It has reliable recovery in the form of Recover, make it able to switch in that many more times, and can easily get opportunities to take advantage this as it forces out the mon it switches in on. As for its switchins, it can run toxic to widdle them down, limiting how many times they can switch in and out. It can also run curse, which can raise its already good Defense, allowing you to invest more in it's Special Defense, long with it's Attack, letting it put an even larger dent in the opponent's team, all at the risk or lowering Speed, which your not outspeeding much with in the first place. So get Gastrodon out of B+ and move it to the Big League that is A-. That may have been an unintentional reference. I'm not sure.
 

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